continued
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R. Carr: Not, other than I just think we can't go any further
until the road issue is resolved.
G. Lake: And unfortunately we have spent, I hate to think
of how much time we have spent on this Second Street problem
and at the last work session this letter was generated to us
after the last work session just so the whole Board knows.
G. Luenzmann: Just one question. There is nothing on Second
Street there right now?
A. Fusco: That's correct.
G. Luenzmann: Okay. Now, is it true that the Highway Superintendent
recommended that it not be a Town road?
D. McGoey: Correct.
G. Luenzmann: Assuming that the project goes through and they
get the road, why wouldn't they?
D. McGoey: Because it only serves one property and he doesn't
want to maintain a Town road.
G. Luenzmann: Then my question is, how would you adequately
take a road of that length serving all those apartments and
maintain it privately with any type of regularity and decency
and do it right? It seems to me that would be problematic.
A. Fusco: That will be no issue. These will be rental apartments.
There will be contracts and all of that.
G. Luenzmann: I agree with the rest of the Board that until
that road is settled and who owns it and who has the right-of-ways,
we will have to wait until it's settled.
G. Monaco: I concur. I cannot give any type of approval until
the status of that is known. There are also the wetlands that
may cause other problems. It definitely has to be resolved.
T. Hamilton: Yes, the road seems to be a major stumbling block
right now and without knowing the status of that road. Mr.
Barone, what if the first property owner in off of Silver Lake
Scotchtown Road, suppose they went and bought up a piece that
goes straight in front of them, they bought that part of the
road. What happens to everybody behind?
G. Barone: They could be landlocked but I doubt if somebody
bought the land. I think the land was given up when these lots
were subdivided and if it was given up in a manner that if
the Town abandoned the road if would have to be deeded off
to either side and that would become an issue for this applicant.
T. Hamilton: Now back to the utilities, now since this applicant
has gotten the easements for that road on all the approvals
going through that. He has the utility easements to hook up
to the water and sewer. How does that affect other property
owners along that road going in? Would they have the right
to tie in to the sewer line?
G. Barone: It depends who he got that right from.
G. Lake: Plus there are wetlands down in here.
T. Hamilton: One other item. Number of units?
A. Fusco: One hundred and four.
T. Hamilton: How many parking spaces?
A. Fusco: I believe we have six over the total.
T. Hamilton: What is the total?
A. Fusco: We have two hundred fifty nine parking spaces.
T. Hamilton: And you're going to have a total of two hundred
forty bedrooms?
A. Fusco: That's correct.
A. Dulgarian: No. That was my mistake. Two hundred forty was
the required parking. It's two hundred fifty nine but still,
I believe we've been looking for more.
T. Hamilton: Especially leaving enough for people to visit.
It's a big problem right now if the complexes that we have
in the Town right now. Anybody who comes to visit, there is
no place to park other than taking up a space for somebody
who is renting so then now you do not have enough spaces.
A. Fusco: Again, we have complied with the ordinance and we
gave a few extra. We had done that when we came here previously.
I believe we were just a few over and we went back and added
as many as we possibly could and we came up with two hundred
and fifty nine. In addition to that, one of the things that
we have put a tot lot in, pool and that sort of took up some
of the land.
T. Hamilton: You mentioned tot lots and so forth, if by chance
this does not become a Town road, I know if you have tots and
the tots get a little bit bigger these kids are going to have
to walk someplace to get some kind of bus to get to their higher
education. How is that going to be handled? It's a long walk
to get out to Silver Lake Scotchtown Road.
G. Lake: They could put a sidewalk somewhere on the property.
T. Hamilton: The kids from some of the units that will be
on the corner waiting or the parents parking there, I think
it's going to create a hazardous situation.
G. Lake: I think the problem and I think a problem with another
application with the school buses and I see it a lot at Imperial
Park. There's plenty of room in there.
T. Hamilton: It's private property. They don't want to go
on to private property. That means they will have to stop on
a major highway where these kids are going to be out there.
A lot of them they're parents won't be with them and I think
it's going to be a hazardous situation.
That's all I have.
G. Lake: Let's get back to that for a minute. The property
on Silver Lake Scotchtown Road maybe a school bus stop down
there?
T. Hamilton: That's why I'm asking the question. What are
they going to do?
G. Lake: Maybe an extra wide sidewalk or a little something
down there.
A. Fusco: We can do a shelter or something of that issue.
T. Hamilton: The length of that road, that's a long way for
the kids, today they don't walk.
A. Fusco: One of the things, I do appreciate the patience
that you've all had. We have had a lot of access problems with
this. At the last work session everyone was under the impression
that the Town did have access to that piece. Just to give you
some assurances and from my municipal experience is that when
you have these paper streets there are properties on either
side and if it's on the tax map and they are untaxed then they
are owned by the municipality. I don't think it will be an
issue but I will follow up with the search. In fact, we have
another work session set up for Monday and hopefully at that
point we will be able to hear some additional direction on
this project.
G. Lake: The only other thing, I guess you're going to have
to, if this thing does become a Town road, you should have
easements for all services back to that back lot, okay?
A. Fusco: We have no issue with that.
G. Lake: The water and sewer and along with access to it.
The Public Hearing is closed. I think Mr. Barone came up with
you getting a title search.
G. Barone: We need the sixty two days waived?
G. Lake: That was going to be my next question. Since the
Public Hearing is closed, do you waive the sixty two day time
frame?
A. Fusco: Yes, absolutely.
G. Lake: We realize it's been a long road but we have to make
sure that everything is resolved.
A. Fusco: One thing if I could ask is if there are any other
issues that you can think of?
A. Dulgarian: Getting back to this parking issue, there's
two spaces for one bedroom and there's two and a half spaces
for the two bedrooms. Basically you say there are two spaces
for every dwelling unit, that gives you thirty two spaces for
visitors. I think that's where we run into a problem. That
I would say should be re-visited. I know we've always been
asking for more and even with nineteen over. If he could squeak
out a couple more between now and when he returns that would
be fantastic.
G. Lake: Are you going to waive the sixty two time frame?
A. Fusco: That's correct.
MOTION to TABLE for further review made by A. Dulgarian and
seconded by P. Owen.
A. Dulgarian: Aye
P. Owen: Aye
R. Carr: Aye
T. Hamilton: Aye
G. Monaco: Aye
G. Luenzmann: Aye
G. Lake: Aye
MOTION CARRIED. 7 AYES
3. PUBLIC HEARING 7:40 P.M. - MANN EQUIPMENT - SITE PLAN/SPECIAL
USE PERMIT - County Route 76 (3-1-33.21) #001-003
G. Lake: Public Hearing started at 7:30 P.M. M. Hunt read
the Public Hearing notice.
M. Hunt: NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that a PUBLIC HEARING of the
Planning Board of the Town of Wallkill, Orange County, New
York, will be held at the Town Hall at 600 Route 211 East,
in said Town, on the 3rd day of March, 2004 at 7:30 P.M. or
as soon thereafter as the matter can be heard that day on the
application of Pearlman, Inc. c/o Gary Mann, 12 O'Gorman Road,
Wurtsburo, New York for approval of Site Plan and Special Use
Permit for an Outdoor Sales Lot, County Highway76, under Section
249-26-C9 of the Zoning Law of the Town of Wallkill. All parties
of interest will be heard at said time and place. S/Gary Lake,
Chairman
G. Lake: Why don't you bring the Board up since the last time
you were here?
J. Tirolli: We have a Site Plan for an outdoor sales lot utilizing
the existing property that is already paved. There are only
a few minor improvements being made to the lot, one of them
being a very small area of pavement and that pavement being
outside of the one hundred foot buffer of the Department of
Environmental Conservation wetlands. The Department of Environmental
Conservation wetlands are shown in blue. The one hundred foot
buffer is shown in orange. The buffer encompasses about a third
of the existing property line and about two-thirds of (not
clear). We have added the details that your Engineer requested
for handicap parking. We have also added to the plan a chain
link fence which we had shown but the installation will only
be completed if the Department of Environmental Conservation
wishes. There are no changes being made to the building and
the existing lighting is what is going to be utilized. The
landscaping plan would be generated as two parts. One part
has little plantings in the area outside the yard which doesn't
require a permit. This planting you see here is right next
to and involves planting within the one hundred foot buffer
and again subject to the Department of Environmental Conservation.
D. McGoey: Is that new?
J. Tirolli: No.
D. McGoey: I didn't see that.
J. Tirolli: I submitted four or five copies at the January
work session. You may or may not have seen it but it was asked
to be submitted.
G. Lake: What happens if you can't plant in the buffer, will
you move it within?
J. Tirolli: No. The plantings that we have outside the buffer
are quite substantial. Around the building you will see a lot
of the grasses, etc. We have a couple of oak trees out there
on the right. There is landscaping all the way around the building.
G. Lake: I am asking because we don't seem to have the landscaping
plan.
D. McGoey: I have a landscaping plan but it's not made part
of the set and it should be submitted as a set.
J. Tirolli: Do you want to have sheet #1 and sheet #2.
G. Lake: What I am asking you if you're not permitted to do
your landscaping in the Department of Environmental Conservation
wetlands or buffer, are you going to move them outside and
at least show us some landscaping?
J. Tirolli: It's already landscaped outside the buffer. Everything
outside the buffer is already landscaped.
G. Lake: Again, I'm just trying to see that from here. Dick,
do He add landscaping or not?
D. McGoey: He's added landscaping in the one hundred foot
buffer. I can't tell what is outside of the buffer.
G. Lake: Let me go through the Board before I go to the Public?
A. Dulgarian: I will wait until after the Public.
P. Owen: I will wait.
R. Carr: I will wait.
G. Luenzmann: Nothing right now.
G. Monaco: After the Public.
T. Hamilton: After the Public.
G. Lake: Is there anyone from the Public who wishes to comment
on the application?
MOTION to close this PUBLIC HEARING at 8:38 P.M. made by P.
Owen and seconded by G. Luenzmann.
A. Dulgarian: Aye
P. Owen: Aye
R. Carr: Aye
T. Hamilton: Aye
G. Monaco: Aye
G. Luenzmann: Aye
G. Lake: Aye
MOTION CARRIED. 7 AYES
G. Lake: We should ask Mr. Barone about question #1 on Dick's
comments as to whether the display of used motor vehicles is
permitted along Route 17.
G. Barone: The only restriction the code has on the storage
is the display of other vehicles only permitted in a small
area in the front yard and storage should be at the rear and
side yards so if he is aesthetically arranging the vehicles
in the back yard as display he can still do storage of vehicles
in the front.
A. Dulgarian: Would this be considered three front yards.
G. Barone: No. We've had that before with corner lots. He
just has to meet the setback requirements, that's the only
thing. We would also want to make sure that he's not doing
inappropriate signage on the back of the building that would
not be aesthetically pleasing.
A. Dulgarian: I really don't have a problem with this type
of business in that location. Having said that, getting back
to what Mr. Barone was just talking about, I am concerned with
your aesthetics from Route 17 and I would just like to see
maybe one or one piece back there for one thing so the applicant
is letting people know what he sells that we don't have a whole
bunch of stuff back there. It could have been displayed on
other areas of the property. Just my opinion. I'm very concerned
about the way it looks from Route 17. I would have liked to
seen a little bit more of this landscape plan and see what
kind of landscaping is behind the building.
T. Hamilton: It doesn't show much in the picture.
A. Dulgarian: Well, no. That's existing and then what's proposed,
I don't see the proposed.
I will say Mr. Mann does has a pretty clean operation. I just
think it's up to us to get it as aesthetically pleasing as
we can. I don't know if I'm ready to turn the landscaping over
to Mr. McGoey totally or if we need more time for the landscaping
and I would like to get the rest of the Board's feelings on
the view from Route 17.
P. Owen: I would be willing to allow a display area in the
front. I wish we had a chance to review the landscaping plan.
J. Tirolli: In the front of Route 17 you will notice the large
white fence. We actually indicated that was going to be removed
but it may be appropriate to leave the fence, taking the signs
off and painting it white because it hides a lot of the mechanical
stuff behind the old diner. We will just have to made a side
adjustment to the landscaping. We can leave that since it does
shield the back.
G. Lake: Anything else, Mr. Owen?
P. Owen: No, that's it.
R. Carr: I have to echo Mr. Dulgarian's comments. My biggest
concern on this is the view of this from Route 17 and I wish
we had the landscaping plan for review.
G. Luenzmann: Just to echo what has previously been said.
The primary concern I would have when you come off that ramp
from the back of the diner, it didn't look good. It never has
looked good. That fence, my concern, it would serve the purpose
right there. Other than that, it seems good having landscaping
to make it aesthetically pleasing. I just want to reiterate
another question here. Is there any parking of vehicles back
here?
J. Tirolli: No.
G. Luenzmann: I don't have a problem. This whole area here,
I think is natural for this type of business. I don't have
a problem with that. In fact, I think this whole location right
here on the corner is natural for this type of business. What
will be there, trucks, construction equipment?
G. Mann: There will be a few dump trucks probably. The majority
of it is construction equipment.
G. Luenzmann: As long as it's placed in such a way to be aesthetically
pleasing for the people.
G. Mann: The Site Plan shows every single spot where the equipment
would be. There is also something on the Site Plan as far as
the height of some of the equipment.
G. Luenzmann: I'm aware of your other operation off of Exit
113 and that was never a problem. I expect this will be just
as good if not better. I have no problem with it except I would
be really concerned about the appearance of the business as
you come off of Route 17 and I think Mr. McGoey has the message
on that.
G. Mann: I think when you look at the landscaping plan you
will see there's quite a bit being put in there.
G. Monaco: The lighting is going to be the pre-existing lighting?
J. Tirolli: The current lighting is what we are going to use.
Again, if we were to change that and put in new poles and bases
again, that requires Department of Environmental Conservation
approval. It suffices.
T. Hamilton: I'm just checking some of the landscaping. The
sales lot that backs up to Route 17, I don't see a height or
anything on any of these plantings.
J. Tirolli: If you look on the right side of that, the last
column he has if it's a tree he has the height, if it's a bush,
it is either by gallon.
T. Hamilton: I don't see any height. It says twenty four and
thirty inch container.
J. Tirolli: Right. They are the low growing in the front of
the parking space. If you slide down to the edge of the parking
spot you see two bigger trees. They're like the typical pin
oak. Some of the car slots he didn't put white pines behind
the slots, he put berry trees, small bushes with berries, grasses.
T. Hamilton: Real quick. Give me the height of what you have
in front of these sales lots?
J. Tirolli: These are low growing stuff. If it's two or three
feet.
T. Hamilton: We're looking to screen so we don't have people
looking at pickup trucks and whatever in the buffer zones and
landscaping used for screening. When you're giving us twenty
four inches high, what are you screening? You're not screening
anything.
J. Tirolli: That wasn't the intent. The landscaper was. .
. These two are the large trees that are six to eight feet
tall over here in front of the building.
A. Dulgarian: You're saying that these trees are going to
grow, correct?
J. Tirolli: Yes but the low stuff was placed in front of the
display lot.
A. Dulgarian: These six to eight foot trees that you're planting
and we're going to get some height.
T. Hamilton: Is it screening or are we just making it look
pretty. We're not screening Route 17. We're not screening anything.
J.
Tirolli: We didn't screen with "arvediti" with
the amount of spaces we have along Route 17. I think that's
what you're getting at.
T. Hamilton: Yes.
J.
Tirolli: We essentially did not put "arvediti" because
there's no sense in putting the vehicles there.
T. Hamilton: Yes, but do we want to look at. See, I'm not
sure what type of equipment, dump trucks, etc. you are putting
in.
A. Dulgarian: That's why I wanted to get a display also. I
thought maybe one piece out there to show what they're selling
at this project and the rest would be on the site. I would
be concerned about the looks from Route 17 also.
D. McGoey: I think Mr. Barone said about the number, the ordinance
allows you have a number in a small area.
G. Barone: That's right.
T. Hamilton: Yes, but he has three or four different display
areas.
G. Barone: I looked at this in the small display area. In
the front he has two other large display area. You're not obligated
to give them all this display area. The requirement is for
more green space.
T. Hamilton: In fact, if you drive up Route 17, you're going
to see his display lots in the front of the building so why
does he need another section that's right up tight against
Route 17? It isn't that he is hidden, you can see it from Route
17. He's got plenty of display.
A. Dulgarian: I have no problem with a small area. Can you
give us a number that you feel would be feasible both for the
applicant and for us?
D. McGoey: On Route 17?
A. Dulgarian: Yes.
D. McGoey: Three spaces.
A. Dulgarian: What are you talking in numbers?
D. McGoey: Twenty by thirty.
G. Lake: And it's for outside storage.
A. Dulgarian: We're talking about the one out here.
G. Lake: I have no comment on that. I think it's ten.
A. Dulgarian: It's one hundred ten by
G. Lake: My comment on the whole thing is for one when he
had the operation on Route 209 I think it was all of the machines
and everything was extended in the air. I am sure we would
want to restrict that here.
A. Dulgarian: I think some of those they have to keep up.
G. Mann: I don't have to have my equipment up.
G. Lake: My recommendation to the Board and you probably won't
want to here this but I think what happens sometimes you have
these front display areas in shale instead of the definite
blacktop or something. The way to restrict that from growing
and to keep it clean is not to allow that to be shale but add
that to the new proposed paved area.
A. Dulgarian: I agree with that.
G. Lake: That's what I would like to see added if we're going
to allow him to have that much right along Route 17.
A. Dulgarian: I agree one hundred percent with the blacktopping.
It helps with the aesthetics and I think a thirty by thirty
pad is sufficient and then you won't have an overkill out there.
Is that something you would like to do, a thirty by thirty
spot for outdoor display area in the back here instead of what
you're proposing one hundred ten by fifty.
J. Tirolli: Reduce it. We have no problem with the paving.
G. Mann: It's hard for me to make a decision right this second.
We can negotiate it to four or five.
G. Lake: I don't know how the Board feels about thirty by
thirty. Why don't you go back to another work session?
G. Mann: I would like to resolve tonight.
G. Luenzmann: As I drive up and down Route 17 I see a lot
of people displaying vehicles right on Route 17 further up
the road. As long as it's done appropriately, I don't find
a problem with it. I'm assuming it's going to be done appropriately.
I think three is a little under kill. You may want to take
it down from eleven to seven or eight but I wouldn't take it
down to three. It's not serving any purpose then.
G. Mann: I would say six.
A. Dulgarian: We're not looking out for him, we're looking
out for the Town. We're looking for the aesthetics for the
people riding down Route 17. The more equipment you put on
there, the less aesthetic value you're going to have.
J. Tirolli: Five is acceptable.
G. Luenzmann: I think we have businesses doing the same type
of retail in the area and they have a lot more than that out
in the front on display.
G. Lake: Mr. Dulgarian, do you want to make a motion amending
it to thirty by thirty and then we can . . .
A. Dulgarian: He needs now thirty by fifty.
G. Lake: What's that?
A. Dulgarian: He needs thirty by fifty for five spots.
G. Lake: I just want to move it along.
J. Tirolli: We've reduced it to five spaces.
G. Lake: We will want the front to be reduced along Route
17 to a maximum of five vehicles, fifty by fifty. We still
have to talk about the landscaping a little bit.
A. Dulgarian: I agree with what Mr. Barone and Mr. Carr said
about Mr. McGoey being more than capable, that's not what I
was questioning, I hate throwing everything in his lap.
G. Lake: Right.
A. Dulgarian: I know he's more than capable and I think he
has an idea of what we're looking for.
G. Lake: Is there anything else from the Board before we call
for a motion?
MOTION for a NEGATIVE DECLARATION subject to alterations to
the outdoor display area and Dick's comments and review of
the landscape plan made by A. Dulgarian and seconded by G.
Luenzmann.
A. Dulgarian: Aye
P. Owen: Aye
R. Carr: Aye
T. Hamilton: Aye
G. Monaco: Aye
G. Luenzmann: Aye
G. Lake: Aye
MOTION CARRIED. 7AYES
MOTION for SITE PLAN/SPECIAL USE PERMIT subject to alterations
to the outdoor display area and Dick's comments and review
of the landscape plan, also keep the fence made by A. Dulgarian
and seconded by G. Luenzmann.
A. Dulgarian: Aye
P. Owen: Aye
R. Carr: Aye
T. Hamilton: Aye
G. Monaco: Aye
G. Luenzmann: Aye
G. Lake: Aye
MOTION CARRIED. 7 AYES
