MEMBERS PRESENT: G. Lake, R. Carr, A. Dulgarian, G. Monaco, G. Luenzmann

MEMBERS ABSENT: T. Hamilton, P. Owen

OTHERS PRESENT: G. Barone, D. McGoey

1. PUBLIC HEARING 7:30 P.M. - WALLKILL TOWN CENTER - 2 LOT SUBDIVISION - Schutt/Dunning Roads (50-2-58) #012-002

G. Lake: Public Hearing started at 7:34 P.M.

J. O'Rourke: I am from Lanc & Tully Engineering.

G. Lake: Do you have the mailings and do you have the newspaper?

J. O'Rourke: No.

G. Lake: Was it published in the paper?

J. O'Rourke: No. It was my mistake. It was inadvertently not put in the newspaper. We did do the mailings but the newspaper but not done.

G. Lake: Mr. Barone, the total process of mailing and publishing in the paper wasn't achieved. Therefore, in the past, I know we've had them until we correct those mistakes. Is that the right thing to do?

G. Barone: The best way to proceed in this respect is to not grant any approvals this evening, conditional or otherwise. Conduct the Public Hearing. They would have to publish it in the newspaper and have the matter on for the next agenda so you can proceed accordingly. Gary, if there is anybody here from the Public, you can of course, open the Public Hearing tonight and continue for the next meeting. So, if there is anybody to speak this evening at least they can be heard.

G. Lake: Okay, fine. Let's have your mailings. Give us a description of what you want to do.

J. O'Rourke: The entire parcel is a 50.8 acre parcel. The existing lot goes from the edge of Price Chopper over this way. At one time this was all one piece. This is basically a lot line between the Circuit City and Price Shopper, we cut those two lots off at that time. What we propose to do now is take off the third lot along the wall of Groo's Shoes down to here to basically create an invisible lot which we are doing for financial purposes. Nothing is going to change on the site nor conditions of approvals. We are just breaking this off as a separate piece.

G. Lake: Your not adding anything to the parcel there.

J. O'Rourke: That is correct.

G. Lake: I will go through the Board.

A. Dulgarian: No, not right now.

R. Carr: Not now.

G. Luenzmann: No.

G. Monaco: Not at this time.

G. Lake: Do we have anybody from the Public? You have Dick's comments?

J. O'Rourke: Yes, he's given us comments. I think we've attempted to address those comments. I've spoken to Dick concerning the meets and bounds for the drainage easement. That was faxed over to your office.

D. McGoey: Yes.

J. O'Rourke: The comment concerning the sewer line which the Town has recently installed over through here. We have an easement for the sewer line. The Town as part of the agreement was supposed to provide our client with an as-built which actually shows the sewer line. One would be shown. The Town is actually doing that.

D. McGoey: The pedestrian sidewalk which is item #1. There is a commitment on the part of the original project to construct a pedestrian sidewalk over to the Senior Housing project. I think we need to nail down sooner or later because we have multiple lots, not that the owner is proposing to sell any of those lots, but if he does then who would be go back to for the building of that sidewalk. The question is how do we get that commitment, whether it be in the form of a bond, an escrow, etc. You and I talked about it.

J. O'Rourke: Yes, we did speak about it. Again, it is noted on the plan. I also went back and it's also noted on the plan for the Senior Citizen housing which is a note that we also have to do as part of their approval.

D. McGoey: Okay.

J. O'Rourke: It is a condition on both subdivisions.

D. McGoey: Maybe I can talk to the Attorney what he's comfortable about between now and the next meeting to see whether we can come up with language because it there is a new owner, will it go on to the new owner. If there are multiple lots, do they split the cost of that?

J. O'Rourke: We can certainly make a condition of the remaining lands that they would be responsible to put that in. We can certainly do that.

G. Lake: Between now and the next meeting let's just make sure we have this ironed out and if we need we can have our Attorney draw up something.

J. O'Rourke: Again, I apologize for the mixup.

A. Dulgarian: Dick, this lot line goes through the existing parking lot?

D. McGoey: Yes.

A. Dulgarian: Now, that parking is for the other lot with buildings on the other lot. If that gets sold are the parking requirements going to change?

D. McGoey: Note #10 is a cross easement for all the lots.

A. Dulgarian: So, we're covered on that?

J. O'Rourke: If I may, it's the same as the Price Chopper and Circuit City. The parking was on the whole piece. If you broke off Circuit City line here, that would not be sufficient parking just for Circuit City. That's why there are cross easements across the entire lot for all the parking.

R. Carr: Nothing

G. Luenzmann: Nothing.

G. Monaco: Nothing.

J. O'Rourke: Mr. Chairman, would it be possible to get a Negative Declaration at this time? Basically what it is and it is my mistake but the client has got a closing and at least if we can show them that we got a Negative Declaration it makes it a little easier for him?

D. McGoey: It's a two lot subdivision.

G. Lake: Mr. Barbone, do you see a problem doing this?

G. Barone: For SEQRA review there would be no requirement to have a Public Hearing. You can give them a Negative Declaration without the Public Hearing.

MOTION for a NEGATIVE DECLARATION made by A. Dulgarian and seconded by G. Luenzmann.

A. Dulgarian: Aye

R. Carr: Aye

G. Monaco: Aye

G. Luenzmann: Aye

G. Lake: Aye

5 AYES. Motion carried.

TABLED. Notices mailed but not published in the newspaper.

2. PUBLIC HEARING 7:35 P.M. - CLUB PARADISE - SITE PLAN/SPECIAL USE PERMIT - Route 211 East (50-2-32.1) #004-002

G. Lake: Public Hearing started at 7:50 P.M. C. Kelly read the Public Hearing notice.

C. Kelly: NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that a PUBLIC HEARING of the Planning Board of the Town of Wallkill, Orange County, New York, will be held at the Town Hall at 600 Route 211 East, in said Town on the 15th day of May, 2002 at 7:30 P.M. or as soon thereafter as the matter can be heard that day on the application of Cindy Jackson, 13 Beth Place, Middletown, New York 10940 for approval of Special Use Permit for Comedy Club, Club Paradise, located at 280 Route 211 East across from Dodge Drive under Section 82-24 I(C) (11) of the Zoning Law of the Town of Wallkill. All parties of interest will be heard at said time and place. S/Gary Lake, Chairman

G. Lake: Give us a brief description of what you want to do.

W. Smith: What we want to do is we want to take the space that was the Eclipse Bar in the building behind Pizza Hut on Route 211 East and turn it into a comedy club that would serve liquor and finger food, just microwave food. It will be approximately 3,900 square feet. There's ample parking in the back that really isn't used, on the side and other parts of the lot.

G. Lake: I will go to the Board before the Public.

A. Dulgarian: Just what was brought up the last time about the lighting. I think that is very important back there.

W. Smith: If I can address that. I actually went back there after that meeting and there is actually is a light post.

A. Dulgarian: Is it located on that map? We had talked about something on that building.

G. Lake: The Board kind of wanted a light back there and I thought we were looking on the building. If there's one back there, I'm not sure it even works, does it?

W. Smith: It either will work and it will be ample lighting or we will put one on the building.

G. Lake: We will come back to that.

R. Carr: The only other item besides the lighting was the dumpsters.

W. Smith: The parking is existing. It's been there for a long time. It's not really used. The whole back of the building is lined with dumpsters for all the other businesses back there. However, if the Board requires some type of an enclosure I'm sure it won't be a problem. Again, there are other dumpsters back there.

R. Carr: I think an enclosure would be a good thing.

W. Smith: I agree but a lot of dumpsters on Route 211 behind the buildings aren't enclosed.

A. Dulgarian: A lot of guys aren't before us right now but when they do come back they will be asked to enclose their dumpsters.

W. Smith: You're right.

G. Luenzmann: I don't have anything.

G. Monaco: Not right now.

G. Lake: At this time I will go to the Public.

D. Benedetto Jr.: I live at 23 Stratton Avenue. I would like to ask you tonight to vote no against this proposal. My reason for this is, actually it is a few reasons. The first one being it is a strip of land that sits between Stop & Shop and Stratton Avenue. We live on Stratton Avenue. It is a real sensitive stretch of land there where we have no buffer. When people built their houses in the 50's and 60's there was a car dealership. We don't care if there's a place to eat. Every public assembly bar or night club that we've ever had in those parking lots, we've had drugs, we've had shootings, we've had stabbings. We've had noise till four o'clock in the morning. It's an amazing thing. We don't mind a regular business but every night club goes good for a while. It could be a comedy club for six months, then we turn into a regular night club. Then all of a sudden a rave is held there. This is what happened with the Eclipse. I don't know if you were aware of that. They were going to have a rave there which was going to bring kids in from all over the tri-counties. The police were there. They were looking all this over. This is the type of thing we want to avoid. That neighborhood has been existing long before these other things have. Because of planning that wasn't done years back, we have no buffer. Like I said, to go from a car dealership to this type of thing a comedy club or any type of night bar, it's a big stretch. That's a sensitive area of land. With the parking, it all ends up coming down. There's not enough parking in those areas to begin with so it keeps moving on to the right which comes into our neighborhood right up against the fence. The landords don't care. We've had problems with another club there. He didn't care. This particular stretch when it was Eclipse, Casey's, all problems. The landords don't care. They don't care about your problems but you live there and have lived there for many years. There is a gentleman here tonight that has lived there for about thirty years and built their homes. So, I'm asking you tonight to consider a number of things. It is that type of occupancy that I'm against here tonight and I do not want to have another thing like that going in there with drums banging, loud music at four o'clock in the morning, cars squealing, drug paraphernalia in the backyards and that type of thing. If you would consider that the area is sensitive and we've been in that area for a long time, please make that a consideration. If would help us out a lot because the landlords don't listen when we do complain.

J. Sweeney: I live at 9 Stratton Avenue. I have many of the same concerns Mr. Benedetto just spoke on. I ask that the use of this property not be allowed to become a club or bar due to past experiences of living on Stratton Avenue. I've experienced many of the things and and reiterate what Mr. Benedetto said about the outside parking lots, the drug use, problems there with stabbings, violent crimes, shootings. This goes on and on and this is a nightly thing there. Residents of that street, it quiets down in the evening. Route 211, the traffic lets up. The stores close. These night clubs they just start to wind up at eleven o'clock at night when the residents in that area would like to try and get a night's sleep. I have to get up in the mornings to go to work at six o'clock in the morning like other residents. I've been on the telephone five o'clock in the morning calling the police to please come and quiet down the parking lot because after the patrons leave the club they go out and drink in their cars, use drugs. They play music. They have vehicles that play music louder than most stadium speakers. It shakes the windows in the house. You can't sleep. It disrupts your whole life style. It's unfair to the community. I don't believe that this is a necessary thing to have in the community. My personal view, we can take it or leave it. I wish this Board would have the experiences that I've had to live near one of these clubs and experience first hand what it's like. It's a nightmare. It destroys your property value and it just destroys you mentally and physically because you're drained because it is something that you don't want to deal with but yet you're stuck living there with them. I also feel that I would like the Board to address the problem with policing of this area. There talking about a back parking lot that's maybe dimly lit. This type of thing just attracts outside use of these parking lot areas around these clubs. There's another club directly across the road, Jerry's Club that serves alcohol. They also have a food restaurant. That club I really have no complaints with. They seem to have a crowd that doesn't stay up until four in the morning and blast music as loud as they can after they are drunk. They have dinner, a few drinks and then go home. A club like that I don't mind. We can put up with that. We live in an area that's up against some commercial property and you expect something like that. These clubs where they try to attract young people and serve them as much alcohol as they can and as cheap as they can, the places get out of hand. I think it's a drain on the police and for the community. They have to have a patrol that basically stays there all night long and babysits this parking lot. That's an expense for the Town. I don't see anything coming back from these businesses that make up for those expenses that the Town has to incur as far as policing these places because I know I called them many times to come and please have the clubs quiet down, after hours, drinking in the parking lot, a lot of bad vulgar language you hear. When the community quiets down in that area, that stuff echos right through our backyards. There's no buffer. There's nothing to protect us from that environment and it's a stigma on our residential street to have these clubs operating into the middle of the night and reading in the newspaper that there's been violent crimes. The last place that had a club there, there were young kids there under the age of sixteen that got stabbed in the parking lot at three o'clock in the morning. What's going on in these clubs if that's what they are attracting to these clubs at that hour of the morning with drinking, drugs and every other thing. It's not needed. I don't feel it's needed. Another thing I would like to have you address and a concern of mine is the proximity of this to the high school property. It's maybe one hundred feet. The parking lot that this gentleman was stating in the back in no more than one hundred feet from the school athletic field. If they promote alcohol and goings on in the parking lot like they did before with beach parties outdoors. They do have assemblies at the high school stadium sometimes until eleven o'clock at night. I don't think it's a good mix to have that type of environment right next to the school property. I don't know if the school has been notified so that they could address this type of a business. I don't know if they are aware of what type of business is coming in there. The letter I received was very vague as to whether or not they even served alcohol. It's just another one of my concerns. I don't believe this type of business in that locale is necessary. If it's something that the Town needs, this type of entertainment or what ever you want to call it, maybe they can find a location in the Town that doesn't affect residential properties. I feel that this does affect my property. I'm a residential home owner. I pay taxes there. I feel that it will it's just going to devalue my property. I don't want it in the neighborhood and I would like this Board to address some of these questions and also I would like you to vote against this Special Use Permit for this use.

D. Benedetto Sr.: I live at 21 Stratton Avenue. What I have to say has already been said. I will be very brief. I have been a resident of the Town of Wallkill for over forty years and thirteen years on Stratton Avenue. My bedroom faces directly into the direction of where the Eclipse Bar and Casey's Bar used to be and the current proposal. There's been many nights and I'm not exaggerating where I've been awake three o'clock, four o'clock in the morning with the noises in the parking lot. Many nights we had to close our windows. I would really be very unhappy to see another place open there. My personal opinion is that the Town of Wallkill doesn't need another bar.

F. Corbaccio: I live at 19 Stratton Avenue. I have been there since 1960. Everything that these gentlemen have said is true. I live directly behind this proposed building and the noise and the traffic back and forth I think it's wrong.

R. Novig: I own the commercial property at 265 Route 211 East next to Jerry's. This mailing I got was so vague, that's why I'm here. I don't live there and that's what scares me. I own a property and so much positive development has come my way that main companies are now stretching that three mile limit and I've turned away businesses like this because of the value of my property, self-serving and also the description said comedy club in capitals and then Club Paradise. I hate to admit I live in Manhattan now and I hear Club Paradise that brings to mind other things which would be undesirable. I didn't know if in this application I've never been here before to protest or question but I'm here to question, is it just going to be a comedy club. I can't address the residential issues but Club Paradise sounds a lot like Carolyn's Comedy Club or something like that. That's my main issue. I like the quality of what's happened since Stop & Shop has come this way and I would like to see that kind of development and that kind of tenants at my property which will increase it's value.

G. Lake: Is there anybody else from the Public? Hearing none, would you like to answer some of these questions?

W. Smith: Generally Stratton Avenue is about eight hundred feet from this particular building. This space within that building is on the other side. It's about as far as you can get from Stratton Avenue on this piece of property. The club will run from five o'clock on to closing.

G. Lake: What time is closing?

T. Holmes: Closing will be from Sunday to Wednesday from five to one. Thursday from five to three A.M.

G. Lake: The residents, let me tell you. The residents have over the years even though there were plans at one time plans for another office building close to the residents, the residents have over the years and I know for a fact just from living in the Town myself have put up with a lot of undesirable things happening late at night. What security measures, if this Board decides to let you go forward. It is one of these tough issues that we have a very nice neighborhood that has put up with a lot for about the last twenty years or maybe longer. What are your security measures? I think you have to convince us. How are we going to stop their fears? How are we going to stop the people going outside and raising havoc until three o'clock in the morning? I wouldn't want to be there if that was the case.

T. Holmes: I will have the proper security around and if it was needed. If it failed I will close the bar on site. I have good plans for my security. I do respect because I have a home in Middletown and I respect that but I believe my security and my plans will be secure for everyone.

W. Smith: The ages?

T. Homes: My ages are from twenty five years and up. I don't deal with young people because I know that once they get drunk. I will deal with the older crowd that would keep the noise level down. The club can be subject to violence and I'm trying to keep the violence out.

W. Smith: Also, if I might add, a lot of the problems in the past were from another management. There are plenty of comedy clubs that work very well that serve alcohol. Also, I think half the problems and correct me if I am wrong but half the problems that were talking about was the Happy Club which is a lot closer.

G. Lake: I will go back to the Board.

A. Dulgarian: Please come back to me.

R. Carr: You said you would have no one under twenty five?

T. Holmes: Yes.

G. Lake: How are you going to keep people under twenty five out? Why won't you let somebody twenty one in?

T. Holmes: Because like I said, to me that's the other crowd and I'm aiming at the older crowds so I won't run into any problems. With proper ID check as well as checking for any type of metals objects.

G. Luenzmann: I listened to the Public and I agree with their concerns wholeheartedly that it has been with previous owners or occupants one of the more (not audible) of the Town. All you had to do was read the Times Herald Record. I don't want to deny anybody the use of the property but what I would like to see is a plan of something that would convince me that the proper security, the proper buffer, the proper protection. I even wondered why we have to be opened so late. Why is it necessary because as soon as you start serving alcohol people are going to get rambunctious out in the parking lot. It just will. I would like to see a plan of how we are going to buffer from the neighborhood. I would like to see how we're going to protect the neighborhood from what could be unruliness.

G. Monaco: I have similar concerns. How can you turn away a twenty one year old person? And even if you could you're still dealing with alcohol. When people drink alcohol they tend to get noisy. I've very sensitive to the concerns of the people that live in that area. Again, I know you have a right to develop, I have to see something that will convince me a whole lot how you are going to address the concerns of the residents in that neighborhood.

A. Dulgarian: The prior business that was in that building, that was a club. When did that cease? How long has that been vacant?

W. Smith: My understanding is it's been vacant for four years.

A. Dulgarian: Four years. When we get applications like this and the use that the applicant wants is questionable to the neighborhood we usually have a clean sheet of paper and are able to develop some kind of buffers or something to help them co-exist. In this particular situation we can't. There's no screening. Screening on this would just generate more of what's going on in that parking lot after hours. If we have a clean sheet of paper where we're building a business we can do different screening's and different things. With this particular application there is no alternative for buffer protection for the rest of the neighborhood. I know what you're seeking is a permitted use but there are several other permitted uses in that type of building in that area. I would like to see a type of business that would have similar hours with all the other businesses in there with the stores, the offices, the Pizza Hut, or what ever. We do have an obligation to the people in that community. That's why we have Public Hearings, to get the impact that it will have. Also, I do believe that this is going to have a real negative impact not only on the residential neighborhood but on the businesses next to it. The last thing I would add, is you said you were going to have a metal detector. A business that has to have a metal detector, I would not really like to see next to a neighborhood. We are not able to justify a buffer for this.

MOTION to close the PUBLIC HEARING at 8:55 P.M. made by A. Dulgarian and seconded

Continue